Thing God is not #27: An Intergalactic Prayer-Granting Machine

Thing God is not #27: An Intergalactic Prayer-Granting Machine

click on image to enlarge

Advertisements

16 thoughts on “Thing God is not #27: An Intergalactic Prayer-Granting Machine

  1. YES YES YES! Joshua, this is definitely something that I run into a lot from both Christians and non-Christians. Too many seem to think God is somehow obligated to give us what we want. He’s just “out there” somewhere, at our beck and call.

    This concept of God is one I run into a lot in apologetics. People simply don’t know who God is.

    Like

  2. Do you really care about results?
    A jug of milk (for example) is not an intergalactic prayer granting machine.
    It’s possible to pray to a jug of milk. Go ahead.
    Yet it won’t grant you every prayer.
    A jug of milk is not obligated to give you what you want. It’s not at your beck and call. People simply don’t know what is a jug of milk.

    The best optical illusion in the world!

    Like

  3. Do you have any of your own thoughts you’d like to share or am I just going to have to be content communicating with Youtube videos?

    Well, as you yourself pointed out, it’s three comments with three videos. It’s not just videos.

    I’ll be happy to interact with a living, breathing human being, but not a cold, dead video.

    Then you have my comments. I look forward to your interaction.

    Like

  4. Well, prayer doesn’t work.
    It doesn’t matter what you pray to. The spectrum of results are always the same.

    “Thing god is not #27: An intergalactic prayer-granting machine” applies to, well, everything.
    A jug of milk is also not an intergalactic prayer-granting machine.
    Nor is it obligated to give you what you want.

    The video does a good job of explaining how prayer is an exercise in self-deception.
    That’s why I posted it.

    Like

    • Maybe the reason that both you and the author of the video concluded “prayer doesn’t work” is because you misunderstood the purpose of prayer? Did you ever consider that you might not understand what prayer is? Have you ever done it before, by the way?

      Comparing God, the Creator of all things and the Father of Jesus, in Whom many people (myself included) believe, trust, and pray to with a jug of milk, which no-one actually believes, trusts, or prays to, is a little too ridiculous and insulting of the intelligence for my tastes.

      Now that you’ve let us know your thoughts on prayer-answering milk jugs, I’d like to know your thoughts on Jesus. Have you investigated His claims about Himself? What did you find?

      Joshua

      Like

  5. Comparing God, the Creator of all things and the Father of Jesus, in Whom many people (myself included) believe, trust, and pray to with a jug of milk, which no-one actually believes, trusts, or prays to, is a little too ridiculous and insulting of the intelligence for my tastes.

    The results are the same.

    Maybe the reason that both you and the author of the video concluded “prayer doesn’t work” is because you misunderstood the purpose of prayer?

    Does the purpose of prayer (however you explain it) change the results?

    Did you ever consider that you might not understand what prayer is?

    Did you ever consider that praying to a jug of milk would have the same effect?

    People from all religions and denominations pray for various things in various ways for various reasons. The results are the same.
    Christians don’t seem to get anything more out of it than Hindus, for example.

    I’d like to know your thoughts on Jesus.

    The evidence that Jesus existed seems to be a tad thin.

    Like

    • Did you ever consider that praying to a jug of milk would have the same effect?

      Really now? Well, find me one person who will honestly attribute an answered prayer to a jug of milk and then I’ll think you’re proposing a genuine question. Otherwise, you’re just shooting your sincerity in the foot.

      People from all religions and denominations pray for various things in various ways for various reasons. The results are the same.
      Christians don’t seem to get anything more out of it than Hindus, for example.

      Well, wisdom is proven right by her children. Christianity produces things like science, art, music, hospitals, universities, and so on. What does Hinduism produce? Now, those things in no way prove that the claims of Christianity are true. I’m just saying that there’s a certain, specific, and genuine hope the faith in Jesus produces in the renewed heart of a genuine convert, regardless of the presence or lack of answered prayers, which enables people to get a hold of themselves, stop feeling depressed and sorry for themselves, and do something constructive in this world to help its inhabitants.

      Of course, asking for things from God, the angle that you and the video have taken, is just one aspect of prayer. Another function of it is to unburden (de-stress) our hearts and minds. Another is to ask forgiveness for wrongs. The whole idea of the cartoon is that my fellow Christians shouldn’t think that God is obligated to grant everything they pray for. And, as it applies to critics, prayer shouldn’t be seen as some sort of always win lottery — you ask and God gives you whatever you ask for. He’s God, not a genie in a bottle. Answered prayers are only those that accord with His will.

      If you don’t mind me asking, what do you do when you get stressed?

      The evidence that Jesus existed seems to be a tad thin.

      Well, that’s actually a positive answer; a “tad thin” is much better than “non-existent”. Look closely into His claims. Please don’t overlook Him and then accuse history of being absent evidence of God’s interaction in it.

      Joshua

      Like

  6. Well, find me one person who will honestly attribute an answered prayer to a jug of milk and then I’ll think you’re proposing a genuine question.

    Well, this is the thing. Are prayers answered or is it no different from praying to a jug of milk? The results seem to be exactly the same.

    Christianity produces things like science, art, music, hospitals, universities, and so on. What does Hinduism produce?

    “Production”? How did that enter the conversation?

    Now, those things in no way prove that the claims of Christianity are true.

    Good. That would be silly. Thank you for not doing that.

    I’m just saying that there’s a certain, specific, and genuine hope the faith in Jesus produces in the renewed heart of a genuine convert, regardless of the presence or lack of answered prayers, which enables people to get a hold of themselves, stop feeling depressed and sorry for themselves….

    Suitably vague and subjective. It could be said by any apologist for any religion at all.

    “I’m just saying that there’s a certain, specific, and genuine hope the faith in Zeus produces in the renewed heart of a genuine convert, regardless of the presence or lack of answered prayers, which enables people to get a hold of themselves, stop feeling depressed and sorry for themselves…”

    “Of course, asking for things from God, the angle that you and the video have taken, is just one aspect of prayer.”

    Isn’t it also in your holy texts or something? According to the video it is. Don’t priests of all sorts and flavours harp on about that “one aspect” quite a bit? If you ask things from your god, what are the results? Are the results more positive that asking things from a jug of milk?

    The whole idea of the cartoon is that my fellow Christians shouldn’t think that God is obligated to grant everything they pray for. And, as it applies to critics, prayer shouldn’t be seen as some sort of always win lottery — you ask and God gives you whatever you ask for. He’s God, not a genie in a bottle. Answered prayers are only those that accord with His will.

    I get it. Yet it applies to any other religion too. A Hindu or Baalist or Jug-Of-Milkist could say the same.

    People from all religions and denominations pray for various things in various ways for various reasons. The results are the same.
    Christians don’t seem to get anything more out of it than Hindus, for example.

    Well, that’s actually a positive answer; a “tad thin” is much better than “non-existent”.

    I was being ironic. I’d say the same thing about Xenu or Spiderman.

    Like

    • Again I challenge you to find us a person who actually prays to a jug of milk.

      The fact is you won’t find people praying to jugs of milk or to Zeus. You know that. Ask yourself why that is.

      I can only think that someone who hasn’t taken any of the claims of different religions seriously would make such bold statements, obliterate distinctions, and do things like compare Zeus to God, the Creator of all things and the Father of Jesus. I also can only think that someone who disregards history and archaeology can equate the evidence for Jesus with evidence for Xenu or Spiderman. Now, I like comics just as much as anyone, but to say that is just insincere.

      So when someone, like yourself, seriously and continually contends that praying to God, the Creator of all things and the Father of Jesus (the concise Christian definition of God), is no different than praying to a jug of milk or Zeus, or that the historical evidence for Spiderman is the same as that of Jesus, I think we’ve gone about as far as we can in this conversation.

      If you’re not going to take the claims of Jesus seriously enough to investigate them enough to know that God is different from Zeus and that Jesus is different from Spiderman, then I’d urge you to keep yourself from making any statements about Christianity, since it all centers on Him and His claims. That God has interacted in an intimate, personal way in the history of the world through Him and given evidence of His existence through raising Jesus from the dead is no small claim and certainly it isn’t trivial to anyone seriously pursuing facts about the true nature of reality. (Such a person I hope you are, but you’ve yet to show that yet.)

      Sincerely,

      Joshua

      Like

  7. Again I challenge you to find us a person who actually prays to a jug of milk.

    Why?
    People from all religions and denominations pray for various things in various ways for various reasons. The results seem to be suspiciously the same.
    Christians don’t seem to get anything more out of it than Hindus, for example.
    Are prayers answered or is it no different from praying to a jug of milk? The results seem to be exactly the same.

    The fact is you won’t find people praying to jugs of milk or to Zeus. You know that. Ask yourself why that is.

    Are you claiming that the results are any better? There doesn’t seem to be any evidence to back that up.

    So when someone, like yourself, seriously and continually contends that praying to God, the Creator of all things and the Father of Jesus (the concise Christian definition of God), is no different than praying to a jug of milk or Zeus…

    Well, the results do seem to be the same.
    Prayer is an exercise in self-deception.

    If you’re not going to take the claims of Jesus seriously enough to investigate them enough to know that God is different from Zeus and that Jesus is different from Spiderman…

    All claims must be judged on evidence. There are no freebies.
    Would you accept such handwaving from some other guy touting his [Insert Brand Name]?

    “If you’re not going to take the claims of Xenu seriously enough to investigate them enough to know that Xenu is different from Zeus and that Baal is different from Spiderman…etc”

    It doesn’t work.

    “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” – Carl Sagan.

    Mr. Deity Episode 4: Mr. Deity and the Messages

    Like

    • How about this: share with us the evidence you examined to arrive at your conclusions. (Be as specific as possible.)

      By the way: What is it that you hope to accomplish in this exchange?

      Now, I don’t know if you were trying to be funny or if it was by accident, but these uninformed comparisons — that God and a milk jug are the same; that Spiderman and Jesus rest on the same amount of historical evidence — are only helping persuade me of insincerity coming from your side of this chat.

      The late Carl Sagan was a brilliant guy. I don’t doubt that. But what does your quote really mean? How do you think he came to that conclusion? What evidence did he present to prove it?

      Joshua

      Like

  8. …share with us the evidence you examined to arrive at your conclusions.

    Ok.
    People from all religions and denominations pray for various things in various ways for various reasons. The results seem to be suspiciously the same.
    Christians don’t seem to get anything more out of it than Hindus, for example.

    You can pray to a jug of milk but the results seem to be the same as if you prayed to Zeus.

    “Of course, asking for things from God, the angle that you and the video have taken, is just one aspect of prayer.”

    This is the nature of the claim. If you ask for something, do you actually get it?
    Do you honestly care about the results?
    Extraordianary claims demand extraordinary evidence.

    Thing god is not #27: An intergalactic prayer-granting machine” could apply to, well, everything. As a handy-wavey excuse for a failed result it works for jugs of milk too. It’s a convenient cop-out.

    Like

    • Well, I thought you might repeat what you posted before when I asked you for evidence. That’s why I asked you to be specific. How many Christians and Hindus did you yourself talk to before forming your conclusion? What were their prayers? (I tend to think that you didn’t talk to any.)

      I had some small hope that you might participate in a discussion. Instead, I’m met with condescension again and again. Hmmm. I’ve rarely met a person who appreciates condescension. I’m not one of them, either. We’re not getting anywhere. So my responses to you in this thread will end here.

      Thanks for leaving comments. Maybe it would be time better spent seriously researching religious claims by studying their texts and interacting with their adherents?

      Joshua

      Like

  9. How many Christians and Hindus did you yourself talk to before forming your conclusion?

    Does it matter?

    We’re not getting anywhere. So my responses to you in this thread will end here.

    I’m sorry you feel that way. It could have been an interesting discussion.

    Maybe it would be time better spent seriously researching religious claims by studying their texts and interacting with their adherents?

    How would that be better?
    If you ask for something, do you actually get it?
    Do you honestly care about the results?

    People from all religions and denominations pray for various things in various ways for various reasons. The results seem to be suspiciously the same.

    Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s